Claudia: First things first, this is Claudia and I am interviewing Danielel 14
and way before we start, I just want to say thank you for coming out here
and talking with us and with me. I know that sometimes talking about these
things and sharing these stories can be a little painful and bring about
emotions that you don't really want to feel or relive, but it's important
to know your story and to really help people understand the realities of
migration and the human side of it. I think that this is really awesome
that you've been talking to us and telling us this because it's really
going to be helpful.


Daniel: Well, it's my pleasure, Claudia. [inaudible 00:00:39] is a lot better
now. If I were to come and maybe tell you my story about three, four years
ago I probably wouldn't have been able to. Right now, emotions, they’re not
mixed anymore. I pretty much know what's going on, know where I stand and
know my options. Once you got all that stuff cleared out, your story just
becomes a story and not a feeling anymore. My story is like, I'm pretty
sure more like any young guy that was born in the States without a... Well,
even the 90s, the 90s I think it was the toughest year for the United
States when it comes down to gang members.


Daniel: When I was young, living in Illinois, nothing but gang members all
around, people getting shot all the time, people getting beat up all the
time so that's how it was when he was young. When I realized that's not the
one life I... That even though to me wasn't as bad as the world seemed like
it is. It was still not legal. It was still against the law. When you're a
gang member, you can't look left, you can't look right, you can't say this.
You can’t be mad. They block you from all kinds of emotions. The only
emotion for you to have with the law, it's you want to change and you're
going to do right and be a right citizen. Sometimes you're just young and
you don't know what you're doing. You just don't realize it till you grow.


Daniel: Unfortunately, I didn't realize it till I was here in Mexico. I got
here to Mexico, I had two kids over there in Georgia when I was 18. By the
time I was 18, people tried to kill me about two or three times by the time
I was 18. Plenty of my cousins got shot, plenty of my friends got killed
right in front of me, across the street. All this stuff is basically all I
lived till I was 18.


Claudia: You were born in the States?


Daniel: I was born in Mexico.


Claudia: You were born in Mexico, and so why did your family leave?


Daniel: Well, we left because my mom was a single mom and my dad, I don't
know, he had residential at that time, I think. I don't know how he works,
but he would come to the United States, work for six months and back and
forth. He's done this since before we were born. He's still doing it now. I
don't know if he became a US citizen. I know he was arrested and I don't
know if he ever became a US citizen. At one point my mom would just take
care of my grandparents, well, my dad's parents. At one point she just got
tired of it and decided to go to the States and she took us to the States
without following my dad. She went to the States but not to follow my dad
to look for work.


Daniel: And then she saved some money and then she took us to the States
after a year that she was saving money, then she took us to the States.
That's how we got there. It was four of us, the youngest one out of four, I
think it was one or two years old. I can't recall. I was the oldest one, I
was seven, eight. Something like that.


Claudia: Do you remember your first day?


Daniel: In the States? Well, no. I have a lot of memories about the States,
but not my first day. To this day, I remember the first time I crossed on
the bus, I was seven or eight like I said, that I remember. Then at the
State I remember the school I got to, I think it was _____ School. I
remember the school, the kids and stuff like that, but not specific dates.
No.


Claudia: Is there any teacher or friend or someone from school that you
remember?


Daniel: No, not really. When I was in school, I wasn't too friendly. When I
first started being friendly, that's when I started knowing gang members.
Before that I was like, people didn't like me, things like that. I was the
shortest one, the little one, the ugly one or things like that until I
became friends, started making friends and it started really with girl
friends. I started being friends with girls that were gang members and
that's how it started. To me it was like, "I'm bored all the time and now
I'm having fun with guys and girls up and down." One thing led to another.


Claudia: Tell me more about involvement in gangs and that sort of thing.


Daniel: Well, I never really liked the idea of gangs, it was more like
something mandatory for any Hispanic, even white people and black kids were
trying to be gang members with Mexicans. But Mexicans were like...
Everybody knows Mexicans are violent and they like to fight. They don't
take no for answers, it's here and everywhere. It was like that. Most of
the gang members who I met, like I said, it was for fun. It was always for
fun until things started getting serious and when things started getting
serious, I did not like it.


Daniel: The first time I recall becoming a gang member, I've always hang
around gang members all my life, but when I had just turned 13, I got
kicked out of some school in ___________, which I know a lot of gang
members there, but I wouldn't affiliate with them. I just knew them. I just
dressed like them, looked like them, act like them, but that was it. I
would still go home from home to school. When I came back to _____, because
I went to _______, came back to ____ when I was 13, I came back with the
friends I grew up with before I went to ______ and all the friends that I
grew up with now, they were all gang members from the same gang.


Daniel: I just showed up to a house and they're all just getting drugged up,
doing paint, and I don't know what kind of other drugs they were doing. I
got there and they took me to their crew and when I got to the crew, there
was 20 people there, half of the people they know me. The person that took
me there was one of my cousins. I got there to the crew and I started
realizing, I know a lot of guys there, are guys that I grew up with.
Anyway, I walked to the crew and this guy runs up to me with a knife. He's
like, "You don't belong here, ..you're stupid." I heard some other guy
scream out, "Hey, that's my boy, Daniel. Nobody touches Daniel." I looked up
and I'm like, "Johnny." His name was Johnny.


Daniel: I'm like, "What's up, Johnny, what are you doing here?" He's like, "I
don't know man, you know what I’m saying?" I'm like, "What do you mean?"
He's like, "This and that." I’m like, "Man, you sound dumb. What are you
talking about? What are you doing? Look at you." And he's like, "No, Daniel,
life has changed, blah blah blah." I'm like, "I don't know what you're
talking about, man. I dress like you, I look like you, but I don't get
you." He’s like, "No, this and that. You want to click it?" I’m like,
"Yeah, I’ll click in." Like nothing. I clicked in. The next thing I know,
I'm with them up and down.


Daniel: I realized what kind of life they're having, which was nothing but
drugs, getting in fights, getting locked up, being rebels to their family,
to their mom. You don't say, everybody's like this and I disagreed. I would
always disagree. I always tell them, "You're wrong and you could do better.
Hey, don't do that." They didn't like that. They wouldn't like me giving
them the contradictory all the time. They wanted people to be around...You
know what I'm saying? And I would be like, "I'm not scared, I’ll fight you,
I’ll fight you, I'll fight them, I'll fight whoever, it don't matter, but I
just don't like your mentality. It's just dead. I don't see it. I don't see
the purpose."


Daniel: I got fed up with them and like I said, they were always getting in
jail, always getting in trouble and it was just not something I agree with.
I got fed up with them and I'm like, "Hey, you know what? I don’t like your
game." They're like, "What do you mean, Daniel? Why are you always saying
this dumb things?" And I'll be like, "It's just that I'm tired of you guys.
All you guys do is talk about the same thing. You don't ever have a
different conversation. I don't see a future in what you're doing. I don't
care what is your reason, I just don't see it. I don't get you, man.
Because I recalled you when I knew you before, you're not the same guy. I
don't want to be part of your game."


Daniel: He said, "Well, you've been talking too much, I’m going to put you in
the group and we're going to beat your head." I’m like, "Bring it, man. No,
get me out of here. I told you I don't like your life." They put me in a
group of about 20 guys, started beating me up. Well, anyways, I thought all
that was funny. To me, I would just keep thinking, "Well, I'm not going to
be like you. I don't care how many times you beat me; I still don't want to
be like you." I started doing that, I do not want beef, so they started
beating me up. The leader at the time was... What was his name? Dofo,
Alonzo, I can’t remember anything. Anyways, he's like, "No, once you're a
gang member you’re a gang member for life, blah blah blah."


Daniel: I’m just laughing at him. He pulls off a knife at me and comes
towards my stomach. When he did this, the people that knew me when we were
young for one second, they knew, they understood me for one sec and they
jumped. Everybody's jumping, "No, nobody touches him. Anybody touches Daniel,
the gang is over right now and we will kill each other right now if you
touch Daniel." Everybody started jumping. "Yeah, I'm with Daniel and I'm with
Daniel." I'm getting kicked out of the clique and the group is... I don't
know what they did, they got a bond that second and I think that is the
memory why I came back to be their friend.


Daniel: Not because I wanted to be in the gang, because for the first time I
was like, "Man, these people got my back." Even though I turned my back
against them, they still have my back. That's what it was like. Next day we
showed up to school and I will see all my friends be like, "No Daniel, we
can't give you the handshake anymore blah blah." It got to me, it hit me
and I was like, "You know what I can’t be without you guys can I just click
back in?" They clicked me back in the next day in school. Then after that,
I never changed. I still told the all the gang members I've built all my
life because all I did was gang members over there. Even to this day I have
to deal with it here in Mexico.


Daniel: If you could ________, "Who are the gang members?" It’s big time.
Half of them have killed somebody. I'm still dealing with this all the
time, except that when I got here to Mexico, to me, it was a new beginning,
a new beginning that I couldn't find in the States because no matter where
I went in the State, it was the same thing. No matter how bad I wanted to
say, "This is not the life I want." It was the life that I had and there
was no way around it. Then you meet some people that don't accept a no for
an answer and they're violent and it becomes not only you, your family,
your kids. It becomes a big thing. Not only you have the gang members as
your enemies, you have the cops as your enemies. It becomes a big, big
mess.


Daniel: I got here to Mexico, I got here to Teletech. When I started working
here at Teletech I’m like the ripe gang member for everybody at Teletech. I
had tattoos in my neck, I covered them up, on my hands, everywhere. It was
a big beef, and I was like, "You know what? I don't care about this. The
only reason..." That's the only reason I never came to Teletech because I
knew about how Teletech was. That would be the main reason why I never came
to Teletech, or I would never get involved in people coming from the
States. I would get involved in people in Mexico, the works in Mexico, the
way Mexicans live. I would never want to come here. It got to the point
where we're dealing so much the jobs in Mexico but they weren't making the
cut.


Daniel: They weren't doing it, I was stressing, I was struggling, I was
getting all messed up. I decided, I'm like, "It's been five years and I
haven't liked one thing about Mexico except that I'm married, I got two
kids now." One kid and the other one is my wife. And I was like, "Well, I'm
going to try Teletech." How am I going? How am I getting a flight? I was
like, "I know I'm just block in there and I'm going to get in a fight. I
don't even know why I'm going." I showed up anyways and when I showed up, I
don't know if it was God or what it was, I got along with everybody even
though they knew who I was.


Daniel: There was a lot of problems sometimes it was catching you up in the
bathroom, catching you around the corner, pulling out knives around the
building, telling you you're this, you're that. At the same time, I had
guys from their end that got to know me and they were willing to get in
between those issues. I worked with Teletech for about a year having these
conflictions and then I got fired and I decided to clear my tattoos. That's
when I put tattoos over my tattoos and came back to Teletech and from then
I have not had a gang problem. Probably since I was a little kid, the only
time I didn't have to worry about gangs was since I covered my tattoos for
about a year, year and a half. And it's never been my choice.


Daniel: It's never been something I wanted. At one time, the one time that I
was by my own friends over there, they tried to beat me so many times, they
pulled knives on me so many times, here. No, not here in the States.


Claudia: In the States.


Daniel: Right here, it was something like that, but it never got to that
point, and it will be always because of the same reasons. I would never
understand them. Even though I would stay with them, I would still always
not understand them. I'll always be like, "You're doing wrong guy. You're
doing wrong, you shouldn't be doing that. Why are you doing? Get a job.
Fucking lazy ass." Things like that. I'd be like, "Get your ass up, man.
Stop fucking crying. If you don't want this life, do something about it."
Cops will come around, they want to run and I be like, "Why are you
running? Talk to the guy, say what's up. Why are you running? Because the
first thing you do when you run, is they’re going to run after you. Come
on."


Daniel: I always do that. Well, I never had a real chance to bond with cops
till I got to Georgia. When I got to Georgia, I bought a birth certificate
and a social security from another guy. I walk at the police station and I
became that guy. When I became that guy, I no longer had to worry about the
law because now I'm legal. I got to bond with the law and I got to made a
lot of friends with police officers. That's the only reason why probably
I'm not still in prison. Once I got to bond with them, it was different.


Claudia: Okay, got you. Tell me first, did you ever partake in any of the
gang activities whatever, that sort of thing, and fighting?


Daniel: Yes, of course. Of course. All the time. This is the thing, when it
would be something like that, I would always... I made a lot of enemies, my
friends a lot because I think when two guys fight, they talk a
conversation, even though they don't say anything. At the end of the fight,
usually there's talking, nice talk and a lot of them became my friends, a
lot of them after a fight, after whatever and say whatever, meet again. I
had a lot of friends that were my enemies, a lot and through conflicts we
became friends with a lot of them. That was always because I think it was
because the mentality that I had, like I said, I never agreed with it. It
was life. It is how it is, couldn't do it.


Daniel: I've seen a lot of fights. They used to make groups that sometimes
whenever it would get to me, one of my friends would get hurt. Then you
would feel like you have to do something about it. There'll be times where
you will have to just go do something, fight people or whatever. One time,
we would go look for people, for crews, you would find crews over there, 20
people, 30 gang members in one spot. They will go a lot to dance floors and
things like that. We would go there, groups together, 30 of us. We'd go on
cars back to back. We get there. Once we would get there, I used to love
the fighting.


Daniel: I'd be like, "Yeah, fight him. Let him know you're better than him.
Fight him. That's it. Fight him. That's it. Just fight him. Let him get up.
Let him know that you beat him. That's it." But they wouldn't do this. They
would want to crash them, destroy them, leave them dead on the floor and
things like that. Cracked head opens, people shaking, tweaking, things like
that. Every time I would notice something like that, I will never agree.
One time we went to the dance floor and saw some guys, we would send in
bait. We would send one guy into the dance floor representing his colors to
start up something and they will chase them out of course, but you will
walk out thinking you're 10 and we're 30 outside waiting on you.


Daniel: You see what I'm saying? We would do that, and they started doing
this. I would go with them, at first it was fun. Like I said, when it was
just regular fights, it was fun, but when they started bringing guns, bats
and things like that, I would just think it was too much. They come out,
they didn't know we're waiting for them. As soon as they notice we're
waiting for them they started running everywhere. They caught up one guy,
he tried to jump over a fence, they caught him up, dragged him down, and
they started hitting him bad with bats on the head, crashing on, destroying
him. I was just watching and they wanted me to hit him so I wouldn't do it.


Daniel: I’m like, "Why would I hit him? He's taken already, man. What are you
doing hitting him with a bat on his head while he's unconscious? Come on,
what do you want?" Anyway, he's like, "No, Daniel, you always been this way
and this ain't your life. I don't know what you do with us, blah blah
blah." When this happened, his wife comes running, the guy looks like he's
dead. Comes running and she's like, "No, leave him alone. Blah blah." She's
crying. I notice she's pregnant. She had a big belly and the guy that I was
arguing with already wanted to hit her with a bat. I'm like, "Hey, if you
hit her with a bat, I'm hitting you with a bat” and everybody surround me.


Daniel: All the guys are like, "Daniel, why are you always like that, man? You
need to calm down. This is the life we live in." And I'd be like, "No, I'm
not going to agree with that, man. I can't agree with that. I cannot agree
with it." I said," If you hit her, I'm hitting you." They didn't hit her,
they left her alone and we moved on. I didn't let the guys do that to her.
Everybody, it don't matter is what gang you’re around being with in the
States, they know who I am. They know that I will say no to the majority of
the things they do. They know me for these things. But yeah, that's one of
the things I've seen over there.


Claudia: The story that has to do with the police officer, is it in Mexico
or in the States?


Daniel: Well, everything had to be over there before I got deported. Right
here in Mexico, I've never really dealt with the law. Like I said, when I
got here, it was like a new beginning for me. To me it was like a new
beginning, different decisions, people didn't know me.


Claudia: Alright. I guess tell me the story about the police officer and
also just leading up to how you got back to Mexico.


Daniel: Well, the first time that I got back here to Mexico, it was, the
police officer had just pulled me over. Well, he pulled two or three guys
over. The reason why he pulled us over is probably because they were gang
members also. I didn't know the police officer. I think they knew him. He
pulled us over and he wanted to search the car and I wouldn't let him. I
told him, "No, you're not going to search the car." And he didn't search
the car. Well, he pulls him over again a week later and tells me that, "I
know who you are. You're illegal. I'm just waiting for you to turn 18 and I
deport you." He did that.


Daniel: When I was 18, on my birthday, he went and picked me up at my house
with order of arrest and he deported me. That's how that happened. He put
me in a prison, well, not a prison in a cell of 30 guys and most of them
had already done something. A couple of them would tell you stories where
they stabbed so many people, blah, blah, people without teeth all tatted
up. Just people that you can tell they lived it big time and I was the
youngest one in there. The cop, I think he did that on purpose. He scared
me, I signed the paper and that's how I came over. If I would’ve fought
that at that time, well, I was US citizen by culture. I didn't know that at
the time. If I had known, I would have fought it.


Daniel: I didn't, I signed and I came here to Mexico. That was the first time
I got deported. The second time I got deported, well, I got here to Mexico,
I turned around US citizen and I'm back over there in the States, within a
week after I got deported. That's when I went to Georgia. When I got to
Georgia, same thing. I'm bald headed, tatts, the way I walk, the way I
dress, all them things. I started working again like I've always worked.
I've always worked, I never not worked since I was 16, I've never not
worked, I always worked. I was working, at that time, I was a machine
operator for _____ products in ____, Georgia.


Daniel: Well, anyways at that time I had to stay over late at night, we had
to fix some things with the machine so I stayed late at night and I didn't
live too far from there, so I decided to walk home. The way I was walking
home, I seen a white girl, regular white girl, and she's like, "Hey, you,
you're so cute. Blah blah." She starts talking to me so I start talking to
her and we're just chilling there talking. Next thing you know, I got cops
everywhere. Pom pom pom. Cops everywhere. "Hit the floor." And I'm like,
"I'm not going to the floor." They’re like, "You better go to the floor."
I'm like, "I'm not going to the floor. If you want to arrest me, you better
walk over and put the handcuffs on me because I'm not going to the floor."


Daniel: They walked over, they arrested me, they took me to jail and the girl
walked off. She just walked off. Anyways, I get there and the sheriff tells
me, he says, "Well, you know why I arrested you?" And I'm like, "No." He
says, "The girl you were with is my niece." I like, "I didn't know, I just
met her right now. I've just seen her." He's like, "Well that's my niece,
and I just wanted to let you know. Don't bring that bullshit about me being
racist, blah, blah, blah." He says, "Because I'm not." He wasn't and he
said, "But that was my niece and I don't like the way you look." He said,
"If I cannot find something wrong with you right now, you will be released
in 48 hours." And I was a smart aleck, I was like, "Well, you got 72 hours
according to the law."


Daniel: I was a smart aleck. He's like, "Well, yeah. You're right. I got 72
hours." He said. I was just smart. He said, "Well, in 72 hours...." He
says, "If I cannot find something wrong with you, I'm going to release you.
But if I can, I guarantee you I'm not going to release you." 72 hours, they
realized that I had just got deported a couple months before that and they
deported me again. That was my second deportation. That deportation, well,
I did the same thing. I got to Mexico, I turned around and I'm back in
Georgia, but in ____, Georgia, no longer in ____. That's when my mom told
me.


Daniel: She's like, "Well, why don't you do the same thing everybody's doing?
Go buy you a birth certificate, a social security card, walk into the
police station and that's it." That's what I did. From then, from when I
was 18 till I was 27, in the eyes of the law, I was legal. Even though in
Georgia I was always fighting, I was always doing things like this, I got a
bond with the cops. Even though I was always fighting, to me, it was always
just fights, nothing else. I was always getting involved in the pool
tournaments, bowling tournaments, basketball tournaments, whatever,
everything I could be involved with. Since it was the town, it was nothing
like ____ all the cops were like [snaps], they knew everything right away.


Daniel: They knew you, they knew about your family right away. They started
like, I was always in the... people call me Capo over there. People's
always in their mouth. It was new to them. Mexicans being everywhere. It
was new to them. It was Georgia country, Ku Klux Klan, it was different,
you know what I'm saying? It wasn't as common for them to have Mexicans not
being scared. It was weird for them. I passed that by, for around, and
people stopped being scared. People would just be calm and around people be
everywhere. Mexicans everywhere, white girls with Mexicans everywhere. I
got to bond with everybody. I was always cool with all the cops. Every time
I get in a fight, they let me go.


Daniel: Every time I was drunk, they let me go. They'd just be like, "It's
you again Dan..." They called me Robert, because I bought ID for somebody
else. "It's you again, Robert." I'm like, "Yeah, whatever." And they'd be
like, "Hey, go home." They never locked me up, never. I got into a lot of
the fights. They would never lock me up, they always let me go. The time
they locked me up, it was because like I said, I had a license, that night
I went to Walmart and I didn't bring my license with me and I got pulled
over by a cop I didn't know. This was the highway patrol. I knew everybody,
all the cops there. I got confident. I knew they weren't going to take me
to jail.


Daniel: I went into Walmart and for reasons got lucky, the highway patrol was
passing by, he pulls me over, he didn’t know me, takes me to jail. They
fingerprint me and they identify that I was two people. Even though the cop
there, that took me in. He's like, "Robert." I'm like, "What?" He says,
"You're not Robert." I'm like, "Why do you say that?" He says, "You’re
Daniel, you're Danielel." I’m like, Yeah. What are you going to do?" He says,
"Look, I know you for a minute already." He says, "I like you a lot, I’m
going to let you go. Get your stuff, go home." He said, "But you're already
in the system." He says, "The way the system works now, federal will get
involved in double identities. There's nothing I could do."


Daniel: He says, "You got 30 days to leave Georgia or at least move somewhere
else, because now they're going to come get you." I was like, "Okay." I was
going to move. I packed up my expedition, we put the U-Haul at the back,
boom, we're moving. On the way, the U-Haul started weaving, started taking
me off the road. So we turned back around. We came back to Georgia and when
we got to Georgia, my mom's house had got flooded. When we got there, her
whole trailer was flooded. Since it was wood, sheet rock, everything was
just damaged. The floor, the walls, everything was damaged. I was like,
“That's my work. That's what I do.”


Daniel: I was like, "Okay, you know what? I'm just trying to fix your house
before I leave." I started off in the bathroom, we're talking about the
whole trailer got flooded, everything. Everything was damaged. I started
off with the bathroom, it took me about three weeks to get her house all
taken care of. When I was about to get done, I was like two or three days
from getting done, that's when the cops came over. That's when the federal
showed up to my house. They showed up to my house, hitting the door,
pointing guns, blah, blah, they’re on the trees, in the bushes, everywhere,
they’re everywhere.


Daniel: That's when actually everything got serious because that's when they
gave me a first felony reentry and the federal tried to give me my identity
theft, and they tried to put me a [inaudible 00:27:55]. When I got locked
up at that time, I acknowledged the system, how it worked, and I wouldn't
go buy it because my brother had just got locked up and just because he was
a gang member, he got locked in, he was doing 14 months, he ended up doing
eight years. I was like, "Well, I'm not going to fall for that." I told
them, I was like, "No. I'm not a gang member." He's like, "You're
everywhere. I see your tatts, your record." I was like, "Yeah, in your
mind, in your system, but I'm not going to fall for it."


Daniel: What they did is, since I wouldn't sign all those papers, it worked
on my behalf, all that stuff helped me out. Since I already knew all the
cops in Georgia, in ____, like I said, I knew lawyers, I knew judges, I
knew a lot of people and they were like real friends. I even had cops that
would go to my house, chill with me, drink a beer, just be there with their
car, me and my kids for half an hour, we'll see each other at the laundry,
bowling alley, playing pool. I know many cops personally. They sent a
lawyer to try to help me out with this case, and the lawyer got there and
he... I remember him to this day. With glasses, he had his hair all nappy,
like a redneck, regular redneck.


Daniel: He gets there and he's like, "Danielel, I can't believe they got me out
of the bed because of a Mexican." But I've only always understood the humor
because whenever they call me Wetback, I would call him Cracker. Not a big
deal. It's like... Anyway, this was normal for me. He got there, I'm like,
"Yeah, what did they send you here for?" He's like, "Well, I'm surprised
because everybody in _____, they're forcing me, they got me out of my bed
to force me to fight your case because they do not want to see you in
prison. It's just a surprise to me that you're Mexican and I'm doing this."
Anyways, he did. He fought the case, he beat the case.


Daniel: I recall this day when I was in front of the judge, he's like, "Are
you guilty or not guilty?" I'm like, "I'm guilty." And he's like, "Shut
up." He looks at him and he's like, "Your honor..." He says, "...forgive
this man. He don't know what he's talking about." He fought the case and he
beat the case. He won the favor of the judge. They dropped the identity
theft and only left me with a felony first reentry. I only did a year for
that and then I came to Mexico. It was the first time I was actually in
Mexico, literally in Mexico. I was 27 and I didn't like it at all. I hate
it. It was something horrible. I remember when I was in the plane, all the
other times I knew it was going to turn around, but this time I did prison
time already.


Daniel: This time I know I got lucky, this time I understood the law now.
This time I stayed without kids. In order for me to stop dreaming about my
kids, it took me about three years to stop dreaming about them. It was
pretty tough. I'm at the plane and I'm looking at this, I'm looking,
leaving the States and I'm seeing where I'm going. When at first, it was
real, when I started noticing this and I'm like, "I can't believe I'm going
to stay here. I can't believe I'm going to stay." If I would've had
somebody there to tell me to turn around that second, I would have done it
again, but I didn't, I couldn't find nobody. I was just stressful. I was
crying to myself, nobody was watching me, with my head bowed down.


Daniel: I was at the bus station and I was like, "I can't believe I'm doing
this. I can't believe I'm here. I can't believe this." I couldn't believe
it. Just with my head bowed down like this, and I started hearing birds. I
started feeling something calming me down. I’m like, "What's calming me
down?" Something calm me down. I started paying attention to my surrounding
and I started acknowledging that it was birds. It was birds singing
everywhere. I was like, " I never listened to this in the United States.
Okay, I’m going to calm down." I calm down, made my decision, got my bus
ticket and boom, I came from the borderline to _______.


Daniel: I'm telling you, at that time, I wasn’t even actually making good
money in that time because I was working in a job in ______ and I was
making like 4,000 a week, which wasn’t good, pesos, like $200, but it was
more than enough for me at the time. I was sending my kids money in the
States for the whole year of 2009, a little bit of 2010. All the money that
I was making here, which was a little bit, I was able to send 150, every
two weeks and things like that. It wasn’t a lot, but I was doing that
because it was all right. Anyways, once that [place] shut down,
everything... It was real hard. The family members that I got here, I
started knowing who they were, I started disliking them and things like
that.


Daniel: I started recalling when they would go to the United States and I
would help them out and when I got here, they were just not... I didn't
like them at all, a lot. These people were people that just see you down so
they can laugh at you, trick you into... They have this thing, “no transa,
no avanza” which means the one that don't gets the other guys, not every...
It's weird. Mexicans here are weird. I started disliking these people. I
started being away from their lifestyle. I started being more... Felt more
lonely through the time, not having people here, not being able to bond,
not understand their jokes, not liking their culture, the way they are. The
culture is what they live before the history. Yeah, that's nice.


Daniel: The colors, they're artists, well, that's pretty, got beautiful
sites. But the people themselves, it's like when I got to construction, I
can be really good at basically all kinds of construction, machinery work,
anything. They will see your talent and they will try to pull you down
fast. Here, it's like you kiss butt, you can get up there. Even women,
women are laying with all the supervisors here where they go, guys are
kissing butt everywhere they go, anything the boss man says is funny and
I'm not used to these things. In the United States we're a little more
separate from each other. We could be quiet all day and it's not a big deal
and in here, Mexicans, it's like if you don't tell them what they want to
hear, they're trying to kick you out of the site.


Daniel: It's different. I started disliking the experiences in Mexico, I
started getting worse and worse that it got to a point where I was thinking
about maybe crossing the States again and that's when I make a decision to
see if I wanted to try ________ because I heard they were paying okay.
That's when I tried at ________ and ________ has been all right. It's been
better since I started working at ________ here in Mexico. It's getting
better.


Claudia: You've been back for?


Daniel: Here? Since 2012, seven years. After 2012, that's when I made my mind
that I was not going to come back. That it was like, you know what, after
this you have to just deal with it.


Claudia: You said that you're married now?


Daniel: Well, we are living together. I've been with her for... I think she's
the reason why I stayed, because when I first got here, like I said, I
wanted to... Literally I didn't want to stay. I knew I had to, but I didn't
want to stay. I started trying to ignore everything and I started to go out
more get drunk, try to make friends. I started trying to be involved in
Mexico now. Well, it did, it worked. I was getting involved back and forth,
girlfriends, guy friends, I started liking it, but at the same time I
wasn't liking it because I knew I was leaving my kids behind. I knew that
even though I had to stop thinking about them, I couldn't give them money,
it was still a conflict.


Daniel: When I met this woman, I seen her, I went to talk to her and we
started going out and I wasn’t thought that it was going to be serious and
one day she got pregnant. She got pregnant, I think that gave me life
again. I knew I was going to have a baby. After that, it was like, okay,
let's get used to it. You know what I'm saying? After my baby was born,
beautiful baby, to me, it was like, "Whatever you don't like about here,
whatever your reason is, whatever, it's kid stuff, you have to just do it.
You're not going to leave another kid here like you did in the states
suffering." You leave a kid here in Mexico it's going to be worse because
here is worse. There's no government support, there's no work and women get
beat up all the time.


Daniel: Drugs are everywhere, people are in every corner just doing drugs
like it's something normal, 24/7 every day. Years go by, nobody takes them
to jail, it's normal. That's how Mexico is. Every corner is normal. You see
people laying down on the floor dead, people, they just walk over them.
They don't care. They just keep going. They get to work at eight, they
don't care. I seen that many times so in that aspect, I don't think I'll
ever get comfortable enough with that because to this day I still not okay
by my wife just walking to school, taking my kids to school. You always
have that worry, there's so much kidnapping going around, women-napping.


Daniel: This, here in Mexico is like every day, is every day. Mexico is
pretty tough, but you just have to deal it, there's nothing you can do. You
have to just deal with it and do the best of it. Like I said, I'm glad I'm
in Teletech. I don't make as much as I want to to tell you the truth. I eat
better and dress better, but I still don't have what I want. I can't afford
a car. I can't afford my kids the best school. You know what I'm saying?
It's still a little bit tough, but it's better. I'm glad Teleltech is here.
Well, I'm glad I opened myself to a different world because not only
Teletach, there's a lot of different sites here, they pay just about the
same. It's okay.


Claudia: I’m glad to hear that it's going better now.


Daniel: Yeah, it's nice. Like I said, it's nice but yeah, the past is always
hard. The past is always hard because when I grew up there, well, I was
never with my mom and I grew up alone, four kids growing up alone, four
guys. All my brothers are trouble makers. It's a little bit tough growing
up like that, but once you're grown, you're grown. You know what I'm
saying? You got to leave the past behind. You just got to live your life to
the best of days.


Claudia: Is your mom and your siblings still in the US and your children?


Daniel: Yeah. They're still over there.


Claudia: What's that separation been like from all of them?


Daniel: Well, that's been real hard, especially with my kids. To this day,
Facebook we could say gets to me. If I keep up with them, it gets to me, so
I don't keep up with them. I don't have Facebook. I don't have WhatsApp
because I don't want to. I did had it for a couple of years for my kids,
but it got to the point where my kids, we'd have nothing to talk about. I'm
always struggling, they're always doing something. It was different. They
don't want to hear your struggles. You can't feed them with your struggles.
They're having too much fun. They're at Burger King, they’re living the
American life. They're not living what you’re living. It's like you don't
have too many things in common.


Daniel: It got to the point when me and their mom spoke and they're like,
"You know what? You just got to back off for them. They're still crying for
you. It's been four years and they're still crying for you, you’re still
crying for them, you have to let us live. You have to back off for a little
bit." I was like, "Well, I'm going to try to. I'm going to try to back
off." I decided to back off for a little bit, not call them every day and
try to call them every month and that distance got farther. It just kept
getting farther and farther throughout the years. I haven't spoke to them
about a year now. When I was spoken to them last year, they didn't even
want to talk to me anymore. They're like, "No. It's just that I don't even
remember you anymore."


Claudia: How old are they?


Daniel: Right now, she's 15. She just turned 15 in December and my son turned
14 in November. This has been since 2009 so it's been 10 years. She was
three and four when this first happened and they had seen me two times get
deported and I recall my son, he'd be like me, "I’m going to kill the
cops." That got me. When my son started being that, that got to me. I was
like, "No. I don't want my son to grow up the way I grew up." That's
actually what forced me to change, because I didn't want my son to have
that life. That's what really made that change I guess. I started telling
him, "No. I'm wrong, they're right. You can't live that way. You got to let
that go." That's past.


Daniel: That's always going to be hard, talking about my kids is always going
to be hard. That's just the way it is.


Claudia: This is more of a general question, but have you received any help
since you've been permanently back in Mexico, either from the government or
an organization like New Comienzos?


Daniel: No. Well, I haven't even looked for it, so I really don't know. I
really don't know. I don't know if there is some help or not. This, I heard
it because Adam was walking around over there and he just told me about it.
He said, "200 bucks." I be like, "Hey, I need 200 bucks."


Claudia: Do you consider yourself Mexican or American?


Daniel: I think I consider myself American. I don't like Mexico. I don't like
Mexicans. I've dealt with Ku Klux Klan, I've dealt with black people, it's
just never been a problem.


Claudia: Tell me about the Ku Klux Klan.


Daniel: Well, the Ku Klux Klan is like... Well, over there in Georgia-


Claudia: Sorry. I know what they are, tell me about your experiences with
them.


Daniel: Well, my experience with them was, they'll be on the trucks saying,
"What's up red bag? What's up beaners." And things like that. A lot of
people would be scared. I wouldn't be scared. I'd be like, "Get off the
truck. What's up?" They’re different. They respect things like that. It's
like here and anywhere in the world, anybody that puts his foot down or
stands his ground is going to be respected. I'm not going to go with it all
my life, you don't be calling me beaner all my life. You know what I mean?
We're going to fight, but it got to the point, like I said, that bonds
people, bonds guys I think. At one point I be like, "Let's fight. Yeah,
let's fight."


Daniel: We'll get done fighting and they be like, "Hey, you want a beer?" And
I be like, "Yeah, let's drink a beer."


Claudia: With the KKK people?


Daniel: Well, yeah. With the young guys more likely. Then you would meet a
lot of KKK people, like go there in Georgia, a lot of the KKK people, they
don't walk around like people see. Every now and then they have people, but
it's not like they just are and they have their own things. You don't see
it as often, and I would meet them. I would meet them, I would be at their
houses, I've had a lot of white people friends and it was never a big deal.
I think it was just more than culture. Everybody’s trying to be tough.
Everybody needs a reason to be tough. They’re just there. It's not really
something to me that ever got personal.


Claudia: Okay. Throughout the interview I've noticed that you referred to
the Mexican people as them, as an othering?


Daniel: Yeah. I think so.


Claudia: There's a distance between you and them.


Daniel: I think so, yeah.


Claudia: Do you want to speak more on that?


Daniel: Well, I think it's more than culture more than anything. Mexicans are
weird. They're real weird. I’ve heard them say jokes and they'll say a joke
for a long time and nobody would laugh and then at the end of the joke
they'll say something like “[Son of a bitch]” and everybody starts laughing
and I’m like, "God almighty, I don't understand." Just because he talked
about it... I don't get it. In the United States people don't talk about
each other's mom because you're going to end up fighting. Here it's every
day. Your mama, your mama, I'm like, "Dude, I'm going to get off the car."


Claudia: They’re like “[Fuck your mother]”


Daniel: Yeah, you hear that all the time. You know what I’m saying? I think
it's more the culture and like I said, in the State, people don’t... I
don't think they fight for money as much than here in Mexico and I think
here in Mexico, everybody's trying to fight for money. I think it's like
the "I know I'm going to take from you, so you probably want to take from
me, so I'm always ready." This is something Mexicans are... It's not
something I was familiar with because over there in the States I was raised
like, "I got it. You got it. We got it." Here is different. I never really
was able to really, mingle. I don't. I can't have a conversation in Spanish
too long with somebody. Right away I don't want to be around for some
reason.


Daniel: I don't know why. It's probably me. I don't know. Yeah, I do feel
that this is between me and Mexicans.


Claudia: Speaking of moms, do you still speak with your mom?


Daniel: Yeah. With her, I call her all the time still. Well, I'm like her
best friend. I've always been the shoulder she can lay on all the time.
We're always in contact all the time. Me and my mom are always in contact.
My brothers are always in contact still. A lot of family members from over
there, they look for me. Like I said, about two months ago, one of my
uncles came over from New York and he took me and all my family to
Acapulco, paid everything. We were so close, there's still a little bit of
touch. Of course there's been distances for a lot of different reasons.
Like I said, we don't have as many common things to talk about or relate
with, you know what I'm saying?


Daniel: That's probably why, but they still every now and then even though I
don't say hi on Facebook, they'll be like, "Say hi to Daniel. His ugly ass
don’t want to talk." [Laughs]. Things like that. They'll come over, they'll
send me perfumes or the shoes or things like that, every now and then. I'm
sure I'm still in their minds and they're still in mine, but different.
It's like right now I haven't had a cell phone in about a year, year and a
half. Why? Because I can go get me a 300-peso cell phone, but I don't want
it. I don't want it. I just don't want it. Then also I don't need it, I
don't go get it. That keeps me apart even more we can say, but I'm okay
with it. I don't feel that thing where I want to know what they're doing or
how they been, I don't.


Daniel: Then every time there's a bad story or a bad something, bad news are
always going to get there quick. If there's something bad you're going to
know. That's why I don't ever have that necessity to have a cell phone and
things like that. Yeah, we still keep a little bit in touch with them. We
still get along.


Claudia: We're nearing the end here.


Daniel: Yeah?


Claudia: I know it's a lot.


Daniel: Well, you can take all the time you want. My supervisor's cool. I’m
getting paid while I’m here. He's got me on payroll while I'm over here.
I'm winning here and I'm winning over there. I told him, I was like, "Look,
I'm going to go over there or all you got to do is give me 200 bucks." He's
like, "Put yourself on coach, man, go get your 200."


Claudia: Yeah. If you could have stayed in the United States, what do you
think you would have done?


Daniel: Well, I think I would've... Right now I think about staying in the
States, I'll definitely stay with my kids. I would definitely have more
money than I have now. I think I'll be good I think in... Yeah. I think I'd
be better. I think I had my own stuff. When I got deported, I had three
cars. I had a Chrysler Sebring, a Cadillac and I had an Expedition and a
Tauro. So I had four cars when I got deported. I was making good money. I
had my own place. I never had to live under my mom since I was 16. I always
did good. I always had everything I needed and I had bank accounts for my
daughter, for my son, for my wife, for me. I always had money. I never
really... never cared.


Daniel: Do you know what, to tell you the truth when I was in the United
States, I never cared about dressing fancy, wearing things nice, never
cared about that. Like I said, I think over there we don't worry about
money. In Mexico, that's all they worry about. It's like you're always
trying to look better so people could think you have something even you
don't, you know what I'm saying? You got a lot of shoes that are like 200
pesos and just they're new for about two weeks. For two weeks you feel like
you've got something, then in about two weeks it's going to rip off and
they're not going to work. But for two weeks everybody thinks you got
something. See what I'm saying? Even though it was 200 pesos, $10.


Daniel: That's how it is here in Mexico and over in the States is not. I
never worried about it. When I was over there, I was in Mexican sandals
with my ragged shirt. I never really cared. Also, my nice car, I knew I had
money, so I never cared. Here in Mexico it seems like I care more to look
good, to have good things, probably because you don't have it. It's more in
your mind. That's what I think. I don’t know. In the United States, like I
said, my wife, my kids had their own room, toy room, sleeping room. We had
a lot of space around the house. We had everything. She never had to work.
My kids never had to worry about anything. It was good. As long as your
family is good, you're good.


Daniel: If I would be in the States, I'm thinking I would have a lot of
money, I think.


Claudia: Now that you're back in Mexico and you have been back, what do you
think you'd like to do? What are your hopes and dreams basically?


Daniel: Here? Well, like I said, first, I was a little bit stubborn. I would
think. I was thinking maybe if you work hard, you do hard, everything's
going to be all right. I started and no, if you need a career, you need a
paper. That's what I'm doing right now, I’m studying right now, I’m getting
my studies here in Mexico and hopefully I could get a diploma or something,
get an engineering or something different. Like I said, when I first got
here at Teletech, I didn't even know how to keyboard. Like I said, I never
cared about technology. I never needed it. I was always out in the street
or not in the street, like at the corner street. The bowling alley,
wherever, anywhere else, but not home. I never really cared about it.


Daniel: I never needed it. I never needed technology. No. Back at the time we
had the beepers so we could have beepers. I never needed it. When I got
here, I wasn't used to it. When I got to Teletech, I didn't even know what
the key pads were. They gave me a training and I got better. I exceeded
everybody in the class. I became Doctor Dish faster than a lot of ways and
right now I'm back here. They took me in right away and I'm good. I got a
nice supervisor, he lets me do whatever I want as long as I know what I'm
doing. Right? You come to know what you're doing, you wake up knowing
you’re going to work, you got something you got accomplish. You don't go to
work to do nothing.


Daniel: Once he knows, I know what I'm here for and he gives you breaks, like
right now. I told him, "Hey, look, I want to go." And he said, "Go, no
problem." If it had been somebody else he would be like, "No, you can't
even go to the bathroom." I've always been a hard worker no matter what
kind of employment I get; I'm thinking I'm always going to try to do my
best. This case, I didn't know what this was, I’m on top of my game now and
I didn't know nothing about it. I was lost of technology. You get me out of
cave, we got a... What do you call it? Evolutionary?


Claudia: Evolve.


Daniel: Evolve, evolution, I don’t know, whatever. You have to get into 2019
and then you have to 2020. You got to keep going.


Claudia: Yeah, with the times.


Daniel: Exactly. You have to do it. Like I said, I don't have a need for
technology, but I know about technology. I know how to work myself.


Claudia: Okay. First, before we get into the last set of questions, do you
think that in the near future you'll go back to the United States?


Daniel: No, I don't think so, unless Donald Trump gives a break. Other than
that, I don't think so. Illegally, I don't think so. I wouldn't dare to
leave my daughter for six months without her dad. If they give me five
years and I wouldn't be able to go through it. I wouldn't be able to. I'm
not going to. No, I wouldn't do it. I wouldn't make that decision. If it's
legal, yes. If it's illegal, no. I wouldn’t do it.


Claudia: These last few questions are more of a reflection kind of thing.
There is a sentiment from a lot of migrants tied to this whole idea of
being binational that says that you're neither here nor from there, and I
was wondering what you think about that statement.


Daniel: No. I think I'm American. Yeah. [Laughs].


Claudia: Alright.


Daniel: But I'm just here, but I don't know. I don't feel that way. Like I
said, a lot of people, they just want free things. They want easy things. I
understand a lot of governments are tough all the way around the world.
It's probably what most of migrants had to do. Like here, I think Mexico,
that's what gets more people. I don’t think it's the poverty, I think it's
the violence that gets people out of Mexico. I think that's what's it. I
think if the governments would just be more like United States, you did
something wrong and you're going in, no exceptions, no nothing. You're
looking at me wrong. I'm taking you in. I think that's perfect.


Daniel: I think that's what every government needs to get. Simple, straight
up because people, we don't listen. We want things easy way all the time
and we don’t want to work for nothing. A lot of migrants, they just get to
leave their country, I think is violence more than poverty because land, we
got land, everybody can plant tomatoes, plant trees, plant whatever, you're
going to eat. If you go to the towns, nearest towns where people don't have
jobs, they're fat, they're eating good, they got all kinds of food, they
got all kinds of fruits, all kinds of animals. They got food, but they
don't feel safe. They're not going to let their daughter go out of their
house.


Daniel: They're not going to let their kids go out of his house. You know
what I'm saying? A lot of people do that. That's the reason they leave
because of violence. That’s how I feel. I don’t know.


Claudia: I'm very interested in hearing your opinion on why young Mexican
men in the United States turn into crime and gangs.


Daniel: I think it's loneliness more likely. They don't understand you're
young, you're in a different country. It's like they're probably feeling
the reverse thing I'm feeling. They’re in their country, they don't
understand money yet, they don't understand duties yet, they just want to
have fun and unfortunately fun leads you to the wrong place. They’re young,
I think that's the only reason. They’re just young. Nothing you can do.
Then, I don't know. I think everybody does that. Because even white people
are like that. You get a lot of white people, they're involved in drugs,
they’re... You see that all the time. I don't know. I think it's just
people, man. I just think it's just people are just lonely. They're looking
for God and God is not showing up.


Claudia: Oh my God. That's true. Yeah.


Daniel: That's what I think and I think it's everywhere. Praying and praying
and no answers. I don't know. That's what I think. You grow up and you just
got to leave that stuff behind, can’t blame nobody. You just got to all
take responsibilities. Some people just take responsibility once they've
done something they cannot regret anymore. It's the way it is. I think it's
like that everywhere. Not only in the United States, I think it's like that
everywhere. It's tough. God gotta show up.


Claudia: Yeah.


Daniel: Yeah. No, he's there. He's been there for me a lot. I ain’t going to
say he don't, because I think God is for everybody, but sometimes we just
want more I guess. I don't know. He's been there for me. I can't say he
don't. Like I said they were going to be 10 years the first time, he gave
me one year, second time they were giving me five, I only did two. I think
he's been there. My kids, they had that mentality when I was growing up,
like I said, now they're grown and they're happy. So, I think God is there.


Claudia: So, what can the Mexican government do to help returning migrants
reintegrate into Mexican society?


Daniel: I think what they can do is stop bringing so many people into the
cities and allow them to work their lands safe. I think that will solve the
problems in Mexico. Because a lot of the people that come from the towns to
the cities because of that, because the violence is out there. You get into
four or five trucks full of people with guns and drunks and drugged up and
you see that every night, every night, every night and you heard that the
neighbors, she just got raped and the other one got raped and the other one
got raped. People start trying to look for protection. I'm thinking if they
push away people from the city, take them back to their home lands, let
them work. I’m thinking that will do it.


Claudia: And what can the United States government do to help Mexican
deportees and the family that they leave behind?


Daniel: I don’t know. I don't think there's too much they can do. It's hard
for them. I'm thinking it's hard for the government also. They can't tell
what people are feeling they can just tell what they can see. If they see
people dressing up, acting up, it's like a guy told me, he says, "You look
like a duck, you quack like a duck, you might be a duck." It's a
government, they can't say, "Look at the guy's feelings. Take care of his
feelings." They're not going to do that. They can’t, they're not God. They
don't know. All they can do is apply the law. It's all they can do. It's
hard. I don't think problems in the world has to do with governments. I
think they do, but it has to do more. Have you read the Bible?


Claudia: Yes. Some of it.


Daniel: I'm thinking just God got his own plan. I don't know.


Claudia: If you would have asked me six months ago, I would've said no, but
I actually took a class.


Daniel: You took a class?


Claudia: Yeah.


Daniel: Well, I’ve read the Bible like I said. I’ve had a lot of experience
with God. He's been my best friend. I think he's there, he's got his own
plan, not our plan. He's got his plan.


Claudia: Well, those were all the questions I had. To wrap this up, I want
to give you the chance to tell me anything else that you want to add,
anything that you felt that you may not have gotten across or anything that
you want to add or clarify or whatever you want to say. Now's the moment to
do it. Go ahead if you want to.


Daniel: Well, like I say, I don't know, maybe you would ask me this questions
before, when you touch my kids, that's always going to get me. I can't help
it. Even at the house, even... I got their picture on the wall. Every time
I walk in the room it's hard. I can't help it, but everything else is just,
we just have to grow up in this stage. You just have to grow up and you
just have to make better decisions. There's no way around it. There's just
that and you can't live your past and the future, or your present. You
can't live it. You can't live the past in your present, you've got to live
the present. That's it. I don't know. So many problems in the world, can't
solve them, so I never really thought about it.


Daniel: I just try my best every day and that's it. There's nothing else I
can do. I don't think there's nothing else any of us can do, unless you
can... No, I don't think so. I don’t think even the president can do
anything. I'm thinking if the president starts giving everybody money,
everybody's just going to use it on drugs or misuse it or things like that.
Sometimes money can turn you bad also. I don’t know. Life's hard. It's
tough. I don't think we got the answers. I don't know. What do you think?
You think there's an answer?


Claudia: No. It's crazy because I think Americans have a very, and everyone
in gen...


Continued




Claudia: I don't know. You just want to help so many people and you want to
do that as much as you can. And then, there's got to be a point where you
realize that you can't help everyone.


Daniel: That's same mentality I have. Because like I said, I've been with a
lot of Americans. And I've ate with a lot of Americans in their tables. And
I've slept with a lot of Americans in their homes. Been in their parties. I
was going to marry one or two white girls. I mean I've ate any... I don't
know. Chicken patty. Whatever. Anything. You know what I'm saying? I can't
think of all the food that I've ate over there. Like a sweet tea, cold tea,
a chicken fried, whatever. It don't matter. Corn. Whatever. Everything.
I've ate every kind of meal that you can think of. I've experienced the
cities, the countries in the States.


Daniel: And I think there's a lot of good people in the States. Because let's
say an American comes here to Mexico and does something wrong. Mexicans
will stone him quick. They will burn him alive in front of everybody and
have a party. You know what I am saying? And Americans are so, "You did
something wrong, but I'm not going to take it. Apply the law." You see what
I'm saying? So to me, that's why I say I'm American because I've lived for
the Americans. Not because of the government, because I've lived for the
Americans. Because I know how my people are, black people are, people that
are in between and they're born in the States. I mean just living in the
States, you're going to find people that are bad everywhere in the world.
But I've definitely found more bad people here in Mexico in a month that
I've found in the States all the time I lived there. So to me States is
nice. United States is right. It's good. If there'll be a war, I'll go
fight for United States.


Claudia: You can enlist.


Daniel: Enlist in the-


Claudia: Even if it's against Mexico, you're going.


Daniel: Even if it's against Mexicans, let's go.


Claudia: No. It's crazy because I feel like I came into this project...
This is the second year that I've been doing it. And I came in thinking
like, "Oh. Then people must hate the United States." And I was so blown
away by the fact that people don't. People even if they've gotten deported
are still so grateful to all of the experiences that they had and the
people that they met.


Daniel: Yeah. Like I said, here in Mexico, I mean, when we first got here,
they used to call us gabachos. They'll be like, "Gabachos.." Big, old,
huge. They're everywhere. Why? Because we will speak English. Because we
didn't like their jokes. Because we looked like them. Because we don't act
like them. It got to the point where they're like, "Okay. So gabachos.
Their not scared. They'll fight." So we get our respects, but we still
don't know how to mingle. Because to this day, I've meet a lot of people
that are born here and they're on their own. They don't mingle. They'll say
what's up to somebody, but you're not going to hear them having a
conversation with somebody because they cannot mingle. I don't think if
we're going to be able to mingle. Then we're going to get old and we're not
going to mingle. I don't know.


Daniel: But I see a lot of people that stays here. They can't mingle. They
can't. They just get along with people that have the same history. But with
Mexicans, they can't mingle. I don't know why. I don't think they'll
ever... It was like when you tasted heaven. You're never going to forget
heaven. And you still want to go to heaven.


Claudia: The United States is heaven?


Daniel: This is heaven. I'm talking about everything. Fruit, meat. I mean
everything. Even Burger King don't taste the same here in Mexico. You go to
a Pizza Hut. They take the cheese. They take the bacon. They take the
pepperoni. You know what I'm saying? I mean you go to get one pizza and it
have 10 slices of pepperoni. Next one has only got five. You get it out of
there and the cheese is already wrinkling altogether because the pizza
don't have enough cheese. I mean you see these in Mexico all the time.
Nothing tastes the same. Burger King doesn't taste the same. McDonald's
don't taste the same. Close enough, but you're always remembering. You're
always remembering.


Claudia: What's your favorite American food?


Daniel: My favorite American food had to be barbecue chicken. Had to be.


Claudia: Interesting.


Daniel: And chili cheese's okay. But barbecue chicken. And now, not just
anybody. Like I said, I've been with a lot of people and some people don't
know how to cook. And then, some people just wow. Some people just got a...
Thanksgiving. Wow. I mean I don't think you could find somebody in Mexico
that knows how to cook sweet ham. I don't think you could find one. I don't
think you could find somebody in Mexico know how to make some chili beans.
I don't think you can find one. It's a lot of things. Sweet tea. I mean
there's so many things that you're not going to find in Mexico. Like I
never ate so many guisados in my life, because I also was used to eating
other food. To this day I miss it.


Daniel: My wife, when I first got here, she always be mad. She hates
Americans. She hates when I speak English. She hates a lot of things. And
we will go out. She'll be like, "Hey. Let's go get some chicken nuggets."
This is funny, right? So we went to buy some chicken nuggets and she
started heating up the tortillas. I'm like, "What are you doing?" She's
like, "Heating up some tortillas." I'm like, "Why?." So they said, "We can
eat the..." I'm like, "No. You eat this with ketchup." And she's like, "You
crazy. You and your American life. And you're in Mexico now." And starts
talking shit. And she sees me eating and she'll dip it. Okay.


Daniel: Now next week she's asking for the chicken nuggets. You see what I'm
saying? Same thing with a lot of things. With pizza, man. It's like the
first two, three pieces she's fighting and she's arguing. She's debating.
She's just talking, "I don't want it." You know what? She gets her first
bite. Next thing you know, she wants a slice. Next thing she's just asking
for pizza. Next thing you know, she wants pizza every week. It's like I'm
telling you. Once you start enjoying the good things in life or whatever,
you start experiencing all those things. You're never going to want to go
back. You're always want to keep living the life you're living. So it's
good to be poor. But once they get you out of poor, you don't want to ever
be poor again.


Claudia: Yeah.


Daniel: It's tough.


Claudia: Especially when the world is so against you. Like we were saying
before we began.


Daniel: Yeah. I'm telling you it's like... I remember when I first got here,
I hear people be like, "They make a hundred and some pesos a day. They make
800 pesos a week." That is $40. I mean and you walk anywhere. You walk here
everything is just the same price as in America. So nothing's cheaper. So
you can afford it. And you're like, "How is your government adding these
things up? I don't get it." But it's like that. And nothing changes. And
when they give them a raise, they give them seven pesos raise. You know
what I'm saying? It's like, "Oh my God. Why don't people start a fucking
war or something? I don't get it." But people learn to mingle and they
learn to live this way. And they will call beans frijolitos. They give all
this extra word at the end so it could just sound better.


Daniel: But anyways when I first got here, I couldn't mingle with that. And
I'd be like, "Man. Why are these people just.... They're mad, man." So I
started enjoying them. And I started eating their food and I started
realizing that, "Well, it's okay. They got seasoning. They got taste." So
all of that counts when you're eating pork. But at one point another, my
mind tells me, "Yes. It's okay to eat beans and rice every other day. But
not every day." You, know? I want some meat, man. I want some chicken. I
want some beef. I want some pork. I want to go to Burger King. I want to go
bowling. If I'm bored, I don't want to just kick it outside my house. And I
go spend some money. I want to go take my kids shopping, get some stuff,
eat some things, try something else. Take them something. Money won't let
you. It won't let you. You need money. And it's not letting you.


Daniel: But that's how it is. That's how it is for a lot of people. Thank God
to me it’s not that way. The last couple of years. Thank God to me, I've
struggled. Like I said, he's always helped me out. He's always helped me
out. I've never been like the kind of person that, "Okay. You give me a
hundred dollars. It's okay. I want 400." I've never been that way. It's
like if I'm making a hundred, I want to make 200 next time. If I make 200,
I will make 300 next time. And it's never enough. And if I could fill up a
whole bank of my money and I'm not going to use it. That's good with me. I
don't want it, but let's fill it up. Let's keep it there. And a lot of
people are not like that. A lot of people are just like, "Okay. I'm good
with 500 pesos." I don't know. But this is where we live. This is we had to
live in.


Daniel: So what do you think? That's enough? How long we been here?


Claudia: I don't know. What do you think? We've been here over [crosstalk
00:08:58].


Daniel: Well, there's a lot of more stories. No. I think it's enough. Because
I got to go back.


Claudia: Mm-hmm (affirmative).


Daniel: Yeah. I think it's enough.


Claudia: Are you satisfied with what you said?


Daniel: Well, yeah. Like I said, I don't think there'll be enough time.
There's so many stories. So many things I've seen. But sometimes when you
think about them, you can't recall them.


Claudia: Yeah. That's true. No. I think this has been perfect. I think it's
been very, very good.


Daniel: I hope so.